"Game" by MUSTAFA KAPLAN and FILIZ SIZLANI
https://taldans.com/
{ January 9, 2010 @ 7:37 am }
Back at Amrita now. Just watched a scary movement piece by the two Turkish dancer/choreographers. Holding vertical toothpicks in their mouths to wedge open their lips, they collapse on each other, saving themselves and the other from falling through sudden thrusts of the legs.
Sukunthi: Actually i used to try to do that with my friends. If we don't have the confidence with the other person, we cannot do that. So it's just a test. Whether we dare to do that. You show us that that's what dance means to you.
This was their first collaboration, from ages ago. Originally 15 minutes, but it's cut down to 10 for us. Turns out that there was an earlier version of this piece that involved them balancing a fridge with their legs. Oo-er.
UPDATE: The talkback was pretty tough going, given the afternoon doldrums that took everyone over. But basically, after a screening of a few other video works by Taldans, the Cambodian artists demanded meaning.
Gurur claimed that there was no specific meaning to the gestures and props, no vocabulary of symbols and movements the way there is in ballet or Khmer dance; the movements was instead much more based on everyday movements. Then Tim pointed out that we, as Western hegemonic artists, take for granted the coded assumptions of art that underlie the dance which are not necessarily legible to Cambodian audiences, and Chath asked what's wrong with demanding meaning, all our everyday movements have meanings and purposes behind them after all.
Gurur: It's not about what meaning means, but how it becomes meaningful. I mean… i think what we can discuss is how it becomes meaningful,not what somethign means. because if you just ask what something means, then it blocks the process of making meaning.
The younger Janez takes on the issue of translation. A word like "contemporary", how is it translated? And how much of what he says will be lost in translation?
Janez: Maybe we should not be arrogant, we, coming from West, and maybe we should maybe learn or take something, how the meaning is constructed in another culture. Because maybe it is not in the same way which we are used to, the way European tradition teaches us.
It's not so much yes or not for meaning, it's work. It's how you work with meaning. and we can, what is interesting in art is to see how you work with this.
KS points out that it's counter-factual to characterise Cambodian culture as a new, ingenue culture, since it's so old and contains so many cultures within it. Anyway, you can reverse the question: how about the apsara dance, the angel dance, that goes on for 30 minutes? Not every movement has a set signified. When the body vibrates, it doesn't mean the character is hungry; it's about a state of energy. "We are in an interface, an encounter of difference. There are so many cultures in this room"
Hafiz: I think this is a very interesting discussion, because there is a horizontal relationship that is being established. On the other hand, there is also the relation that what interests me doesn't concern me and what comes from foreign also doesn't concern me. There is always something to take.
Vlatka: The meaning happens in the way that a thing encounters the audience, the person looking at it. I think maybe that's a useful thing to think about. As an audience member you bring things to it. You have things you've read, things you've seen, things you've experienced, and all that affects how you make sense of it, and that's the way meaning happens. The artist, the writer or the maker doesn't put the meaning into things. You can have some ideas, and some strategies, some intentions, but the meaning will be a lot more than that, or a lot less sometimes. You can't say you didn't mean to do that, because you can't control what the thing means once you put it out in the world.
The Cambodians bring up the examples of the monkey archetype in dance, Tim counters with the fact that a monkey archetype means nothing to an Eskimo or a Martian, and another student points out that they don't even know what Picasso paintings are about…
Good god. No wonder there are culture wars. Trying to make sense between civilisations is exhausting.
interview with MUSTAFA KAPLAN, Konya/Istanbul, Turkey
{ October 18, 2009 @ 2:50 pm }
YS: So how would you define your profession?
MK: Performer and choreographer. But also, but basically like this. Of course mainly like, but I am working also between different disciplines in making collaborations with sometimes visual artists and theatre people.
YS: Could you talk about one of your performances that you’re proud of?
MK: Okay, let’s speak about last one. It was a group piece, name of the piece "Dokuman". And for this piece we receive an invitation from 2009 European Cultural City in Linz, they invite us to make a project, and they show two place in the city, two different factory, one is the textile, one is the metal factory, and we decided to work in textile factory. For us the main question: how we can translate this thing to stage. How we can translate this factory, this organisation for stage. And we several time we visit the factory with the other artists also, the musicians and scenographer and dancers. When we see the factory it is quite sort of system, because there is organisation product, production and machine and ya, offshore work, there are many, there is this system in between but we didn’t interest in directly system, we tried interest in the fault, crack in the system. And when we se this organisaiton, it was quite modular for us.
And also this modularity, we thought how we can work, modular system. And also this modularity, brings some rhythm. And we used this rhythm in the whole piece in different way. And also we transform from here how we can create this soundscape. Ya, we more work in the piece, so we can install this sound, who we can create this soundscape, and I don’t know the exactly some word, because maybe Filiz, you can ask Filiz, she can be more explain this thing, but we work on the body, half the time work with body, modular body, compassible [?] body, body that is available for everything. Also this piece of rust [?] it is the nice thing, invite all artists for collaboration because our first, the second group work, and will ask ourselves why we are working with group, how we can work with group, and how we can invite the people potentially, potential people, invite the people with potential for the piece. and we wanted to see all the potential in the piece for the artist. And it was very successful. It was very good collaboration of artists. and we perform this piece in Linz, Brussels, Montpellier Dance Festival. Ya. Some more, but cannot say, we don’t need to make everything.
YS: Why did you agree to come for FCP?
MK: Because I met with Ong Keng Sen in Istanbul, he explain his idea, and also after this meeting, I trust Ong Keng Sen because he’s.., yeah? My impression is he’s doing some good things, very good things. And also I’m really… when I read the paper about the website and after Tay Tong and Ong Keng Sen sent information, he sent all these things, he say it’s okay, it’s nice nice project. I want to join, and so…
I think the first meeting with Ong Keng Sen he saw our pieces and also he selected us. he invite us after this meeting. Maybe he accept. And now I’m really happy to be here, because it’s very nice to meet with these different disciplinary artists, visual artist, dance choreographer, musician.
YS: And how was FCP for you?
MK: I’m still inside, I think maybe one week after, maybe one week after or one month after I can say it was something. I am still inside, but I can say I enjoy, I am enjoying, I am trying to understand also, my English is not so well, I cannot follow everything, I am pushing myself in this way. And yeah, it was very good English practice for me, I must say this thing, and it was very nice to meet so many students from Cambodia. I really like their motivation and their excite? Motivation is okya. Also it was very nice to meet actually Cambodian culture. Yeah, mainly my feeling is very positive for all these things, just I need maybe, I can… I’m still inside, maybe I can give more feedback after some moment.
YS: Are there any moments from Cambodia you recall very strongly?
MK: There are some, maybe not just one. I am just thinking, I think the first, of course, it’s meet with these dancer people. I remember many of their faces now, very strong for me. And also it was very nice to take a car from Phnom Penh to Siem Reap, all the way it was really touch for me all this culture, because we on the road and saw the farmer and village and of course in Angkor, of course temple is, many temple, it was very impressive and picture is still in my mind. Yeah, there are many, but just I can say now.
YS: Anything more?
MK: I hope this contact can go a bit further, meaning this. I am sure some contact will be go, between artists and also with these student and the other artists. I hope also that it can be more, how can… and ya, I’m taking my, I’m taking one bag, going to my country, but there are many things from Cambodia and Singapore in my bag, and I’m travelling back my home. I’m bringing something. It’s not stone or archaeological part, it’s more emotion. Thanks to all team, Flying Circus, TheatreWorks and also the Cambodia team.
Ng Yi-Sheng